WhiteRose Sheepdogs

Dog Profiles

The Working Sheep Dog

Glen

A good "Working Sheep Dog"  is a breed apart from the current dogs seen at today's Sheepdog Trials. You sometimes see them at  Nursery Trials throughout the Winter, but they are not regulars in the prizes. They are usually too pushy on their sheep, tighter on their flanks as they like to lean on their sheep in order to dominate them; and when only working three sheep this creates too much pressure for the sheep. Whereas the current trialling dog seems to be happy with staying off it's sheep, not only because it has been trained to do so, but it has more than likely been bred from generations of previous trials dogs who have made names for themselves by winning sheepdog trials. Have we fallen into the trap of breeding for trials and so neglected the original principle of the International Sheep Dog Society, which was to improve the standard of the working dog to help the shepherd and sheep farmer. I for one cannot decry anyone from going down the road of just producing dogs to win at trials, for I have bred and trained many successful trial dogs. But I feel there is a danger if we are to continue with just trialling in mind that we will lose the lines of the true working dog. A dog that is sound in temperament, with both people and sheep. Confident in it's own ability. Easy to live with.  Prepared to work with it's handler. Cool, yet can be forceful in it's work. Tremendous stamina, during long periods of work. Honest and true. Too many dogs today have poor temperaments with people and sheep. Many are high maintenance who we are continuously fighting with. Many are dishonest and will take a cheap shot when ever they think they can get away with it. Are they really "man's best friend" or are they using us for their own ends. Have they become so highly bred from trials winning stock that they are losing the image of the "old faithful", shepherds dog. that could be relied on to help out with any job. That you could see when training him that he was trying to please and understand what was asked of him, rather than ready to fly around in order to work the sheep as he desired, due to his inbred qualities, rather than with an understanding of pleasing his master.

(continued in a day or two)

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Dogs In Training

Scott

Scott at 6 Months

(details to follow)

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Dogs of Special Interest

Jay

John Atkinson's Jay was born on the 26^th November 1998 and was bred by David Young in Ayrshire, Scotland, out of his bitch Jill 235302 and by Bobby Dalziel’s Jim 195051.

John says that Jay was purchased as a pup by Peter Hallam of Reapsmoor, Derbyshire. As a pup he was always different from the other pups Peter had ever had. He was naturally intelligent and would stay with you when other pups would run off. He never barked or kicked up a fuss when put away and was a one man dog. When starting to run stronger, Peter sent him to Michael Woods near Preston who helped with his training for a while. Upon his return Peter worked him on his hill farm giving him as much natural work as possible. Jay was outstanding and he could work out situations as his intelligence came to the fore. As well as farm work Peter took him trialling and had much success, winning many awards both in the nurseries and at open level. He then sold him to John where Jay continued his successes and now has five open wins to his credit despite attending fewer trials than most due to John’s work commitments as a contract shepherd, dog trainer, and overseas trips.

John had the litter brother to Jay, Zac, who he has also worked and trialled with much success. John says that he would meet Peter at many nursery trials where they had a bit of friendly rivalry as to who had the better dog, and he would kid Peter that his was the best, but knowing in his heart that Jay was twice the dog of Zac. He tried to buy him from Peter for nearly two years for he knew he was one of the best dogs he had seen for many a year. Then one day the telephone rang and Peter said Jay was for sale. “You could have knocked me down with a feather” said John…”And that was with just the price he was asking”!!!

John continued, “Being a bit of a dog trader myself , my first thought has to be, can I get out of it should I ever wish to sell, thus making my small handling charge !!! But on this occasion I knew although I have never kept one dog to maturity during the twenty eight years I have been training, and selling dogs, that this one would be with me for life”.

 So the deal was done and John collected Jay the following day. “Peter put him in my truck with a tear in his eye and a lump in his throat; and I drove out of the yard and down the track feeling guilty for nearly thirty seconds!! I had just bought the best dog I had ever owned. I have reared and trained some very good dogs. Some that have gone onto great heights winning at National and International level, but I knew in my heart of hearts none were as good as this. The saddest thing was that he was trained by someone else and I had to pay retail for him. But dogs like this cannot be found. I am a bit of a fan of Bobby Dalziel’s Jim’s and have bought and trained several of this line. They all seem to have plenty in them when moving stock favoring more on the strong side than any weakness. Which of course prevents many of them reaching the trials scene, for as one knows the kinder gentler dog will do far better at trialling than the pushy ‘get on with it’ type. They also have a tendency to either chop in on their flanks or throw off too wide with very few feeling their sheep and flanking and outrunning always to the point as Jay does. His mix must have just been right. They all have tremendous style and are always beautiful to watch when working and all have turned out to be good workers and that is something that we can thank Jim for. If I have any criticism at all with this line it is that it lacks a bit of stamina. While all the dogs will work until they drop, their work rate is short and they seem to need more time to recover in order to go strong again”.  

Scottish National Shepherds Champion in 1994 Bobby’s Jim has been a dog well used at stud…and rightly so. With his well-proven lineage descending from the likes of John Thomas’ famous Craig line and also that of Willie Welsh’s Don 73710 and Ceri Jones’ Bwlch Taff 113243, what more could you reasonable ask for and proves yet again, that exceptions aside, quality dogs always derive from quality lines.

Jim’s sire was G.Howell’s 1989 & 1991 Welsh National Team Member Jock 158606 and his dam the 1994 & 1996 Welsh National Team Member Cass 173980 who was in the same ownership. Jock was to sire some other noteworthy offspring including R.H.Hughes’ 1997/98 Welsh National Team Member and 1998 Welsh National Driving Champion Ben 198974, and his owners Jill 212520 who was the Reserve for the Welsh Team in 1998.

To look at Jock’s forebears is to bring it all home to you. From his own sire, John James’ 1986 Reserve English National Champion Ben 123761 to his great ancestor L.R.Suter’s 1968 Reserve Welsh National Champion Chip 29946, we see such illustrious dogs as John Thomas’ 1984 English National Shepherds Champion Don 108889 and his sire the 1977 International Supreme Champion Craig 59425. And Craig is there again on Jock’s maternal side through another of John Thomas’ string of successful dogs, his English National Shepherds Champion Cap 91526. Also there is Willie Welsh’s International Shepherds Champion Don 73710 who was the sire of D.Jones’ Welsh National Team Member Maid 97071 the dam to Don 108889. It sort of takes the guesswork out of how to obtain a decent dog doesn’t it!!

 Jim’s dam had forebears to die for as well mind you and was another to descend from Don 73710 through Jack Baker’s very popular Spot 100678 and the likes of Ceri Jones’ 1980/81 Welsh National Champion Bwlch Taff 113243 who was worked by her father Glyn and H.J.Worthington’s Lad 54209. It could hardly get much better could it? 

Casting our eye now to Jay’s maternal side the first thing we see is that his mother Jill 235302 descends from a long line of bitches bred by David Young and his family who dairy farm at Straid Farm in Ayrshire. In fact speaking to David senior he tells me that in fact it reaches back some 40 years to his fathers bitch who was none other than the 1965 International Driving Champion Dusk 18923, littermate to Dot 18925 and offspring of the illustrious International Supreme Champion Gael with Thomson McKnight. Information such as this is priceless to a newcommer to breeding circles as it enables them to delve deeply into a line and trace its very worth for as we have seen so often in the past, all of the good dogs we see today are a direct result of good breeding practises carried out over the years by dedicated breeders such as the Young family 

Speaking of Jay, David has this to say: “Jay was sold as a pup to Peter Hallam by chance as he was already booked by someone else who then never turned up. Peter was so pleased with Jay that he came back and bought his dam Jill 235302 who was mated to S.L.Davidson's Star 211076 by then. Part of the deal was that my son David was to receive a bitch pup who was called Class 250914 and who is the dam of E.Hope's Kep 258546.

Jill was a black, slightly rough coated bitch that started work at a very young age. She was a daughter of D.S.Young's Nell 221613 a black & white bare skinned bitch and S.McFarlane's Vic 190308 a big black powerful dog. Vic has a strong influence on the present bloodlines as he was sire to Hazel II now 10 years old who is mother to 6 bitches at Straid today.

The dam of Nell was Jen 188504 who was given to son David as a present for his 10th birthday. She was a daughter of S.L.Davidson's Chief (Craig) 120006 who was the Scottish National Champion at that time and D.Young's Hazel 158100. Hazel was bought as a pup from M. Peugniez being a daughter of his Dot 127467 and J.Bathgate's Vic 128240, himself a son of John Templeton’s illustrious Roy 114678. This got me back into the same bloodline as my father had 40 years earlier when he was trialling with Moss & Dusk. Dusk being a son of T.T. McKnight's Gael”.

Jill’s sire Vic was a really well regarded dog with good natural balance and plenty of power. Confirming this to me, Mike Northwood had this to say; “Vic was a powerful dog and apparently as good on the hill as he was on the trial field. He bred dogs with great stamina. Peter Wood's Lyn is a fabulous daughter with outruns and a heart of a lion. Two trial winners are John Wood's Scott who has been bred from extensively and Mark Elliott's Deveron Chip”. Mike also mentioned that whilst judging the Royal Lancs he saw a superb son of Jay owned by Les Perrins of Staffordshire.

Vic’s paternal grandfather was J.Paterson’s grand Scottish servant York 127630, a dog who is now becoming commonplace in the pedigrees of many high achieving dogs. A Scottish National Team Member in 1983/84/87/88/89 thus proving his worth, he was a son of that other renown sire, the 1977 Scottish National Brace Champion Glen 75630 with Dick Fortune. Vic’s dam was I.MacMillan’s Scruff 141530 who descended from John Templeton’s Moss 103923 line on her maternal side and from Thomson McKnight’s Scottish National Brace Champion Jaff 38313 and his Reserve International Supreme Champion Dot 3. 18925 on her sires. And of course as it was Dot that was a littermate to David Young’s Dusk mentioned earlier it can be seen how well this pedigree has knitted together. And Vic’s sire Jix 154800 also descends from Moss 103923 who was the 1979 Reserve International Supreme Champion through his dam Pat 137206. The more we venture into it the more we get to understand the make-up of the qualities that lay behind a good breeding dog. Many starting off in breeding falsely believe that it is the male of the species that produces the quality but how wrong this is. It is with quality bitches such as Jill 235302 that have been bred along well recognised lines that contribute an equal amount into a litter and are worth their weight in gold.

Further evidence of sensibe line breeding came in the shape of R.Robertson’s Glen 208750. He was the maternal grandfather of Jill and was himself line-bred to D.Russel’s highly thought of Hope 124402 through Glen’s sire Nap 184037 and G.S.Rae’s Hope 164479.  

I have to say that I am very impressed by Jay’s lineage and it doesn’t surprise me at all why John is so taken by him. And for John to state that he intends to keep him just goes to show that in his opinion this is a really special dog. Good luck to both of them.

Update:

Since compiling this article John and Jay have competed at the English National at Newhaven, East Sussex where they finished in a creditable 21^st place. John says that Jay had a great round on the course, but failed to pen, so therefore missing his pen and single points. He had the best outfield work other than the winner so despite missing the 40 points he was very proud of Jay’s achievement. He has qualified for the World Championships in Ireland next year, so he can be seen there.